Eureka!! Electron cloud to the graveyard.

Feb 2017
205
2
We know higgs bosons exist but they decay into fermions so nobody has actually seen it. Large Hadron Collider experiment proves that higgs bosons follow Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. I have read in many places that higgs bosons follow Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. So here the box is not opened and we still know that the cat is dead or alive. Which is death to electron cloud concept.

The box is closed since higgs bosons aren't visible. Let us discuss.
 

topsquark

Forum Staff
Apr 2008
2,976
630
On the dance floor, baby!
We know higgs bosons exist but they decay into fermions so nobody has actually seen it. Large Hadron Collider experiment proves that higgs bosons follow Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. I have read in many places that higgs bosons follow Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. So here the box is not opened and we still know that the cat is dead or alive. Which is death to electron cloud concept.

The box is closed since higgs bosons aren't visible. Let us discuss.
As I recall the neutral Higgs boson was found as a resonance, which means that particle is found as a virtual particle between other particles that can be observed. This is a common way to find new particles or decay modes. And no one can really "see" a neutrino either, we can only measure what it does to other particles.

I don't know why you are stressing the Uncertainty Principle. All Quantum states obey it.

And Schrodinger's cat has nothing to do with the Uncertainty Principle. You might be interested in this article. I haven't gone over the whole thing but it seems to be reliable and a more basic description than Wikipedia's version.

-Dan
 

Pmb

PHF Hall of Fame
Apr 2009
1,576
331
Boston's North Shore
People often misunderstand the Schrodinger's cat thought experiment. Far too many people erroneously believe that its supposed to mean that at one point the cat is neither alive nor dead but in a superposition of the two states. In fact Schrodinger proposed the experiment to demonstrate that such a thing is nonsense. Looking to see if a cat is alive or dead is not a measurement. A measurement in QM is when a macroscopic system interacts with a microscopic system in such a way as to leave a permanent record.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person

Pmb

PHF Hall of Fame
Apr 2009
1,576
331
Boston's North Shore
There's one thing that all people who claim that QM and the many things it states (e.g. the definition of uncertainty) is wrong: Not one of them ever took an entire college level course on quantum mechanics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Feb 2017
205
2
Closed System.

A measurement in QM is when a macroscopic system interacts with a microscopic system in such a way as to leave a permanent record.
So basically I have to establish that the system in question is not a closed or isolated system. Is this what I have to do?
 

Pmb

PHF Hall of Fame
Apr 2009
1,576
331
Boston's North Shore
Is this what I have to do?
You don't have to do anything. Especially since you haven't stated what it is you wish to achieve. If your goal is to prove QM wrong then that's dependent on making an observation which is contradicts what it predicts. You haven't done that so you won't be able to prove its wrong.

Otherwise you need to demonstrate that you actually know what the phrase "electron cloud" actually means, i.e. what it means. You haven't done that yet and you'll never be able top merely by the methods you've used in this forum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Feb 2017
205
2
Electron Cloud.

Otherwise you need to demonstrate that you actually know what the phrase "electron cloud" actually means, i.e. what it means.
Electron Cloud in laymans terms. Like the rapidly moving blades of a fan, electrons appear to occupy all of the space in an atom at once. Electrons are probabilistic matter waves calculated using the de Broglie wavelength.

Similar to the concept of light as both wave and particle. Electron can also be a wave as well as a particle. So if it is a wave u dont have exact position.

I dont really care about what they say. I'mma coming back like a boomerang.
 

Pmb

PHF Hall of Fame
Apr 2009
1,576
331
Boston's North Shore
.. electrons appear to occupy all of the space in an atom at once. Electrons are probabilistic matter waves calculated using the de Broglie wavelength.
Wrong.

I dont really care about what they say.
And that's exactly why you'll never learn and why nobody cares what you think.
 
Apr 2015
1,035
223
Somerset, England
electrons appear to occupy all of the space in an atom at once.
Not quite all.

That is what orbitals are about.

And while we are about it, how exactly do you define what space an atom occupies?

I mean what is "the space in an atom"?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
Feb 2017
205
2
Request.

And that's exactly why you'll never learn and why nobody cares what you think.
I am giving you an offer PMB and Topsquark. I am requesting you like a gentleman. "Please ban me." My work here is over. Time to turn to a new forum. Just don't delete my threads. Thats all it is.