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Old Oct 15th 2012, 10:04 PM   #1
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Trying Anti-gravity

I can't find where I read that if one spins an object in a horizontal plane and spin that object in a vertical plane at the same rate of spin you will be dabling in Anti-gravity. I must add that this object to be spun is also spokeless. Now this mechanical action may seem impossible but its not. I've essembled a rotor that does just that, only that I'm not able to sink the rate of spin in both directions.

If you find this intriging may I ask for your help in futher developing this modest start with anti-gavity. I'm open to discussions that would support or clarify my laymans understanding in this endevour.

Where I fall short is in the calculations of rim speed to pin axil distance moved/covered. Let me clarify. Let's say that the OD of the rotor is 100mm (rotor moves in vertical plane) and the pins that are mounted perpendicular to the rotor is 6mm. How do I figure out that, or when both rotor and pins are spinning at the same rate? so if you just concider one of the pins, this pin must move in a 360 degree circle once for every single spin of the rotor. Is this even possible??

Thanks for your input
Nullflux8
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Old Oct 16th 2012, 08:33 AM   #2
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Your mechanism sounds like the device featured in the movie "Contact" that allowed Jodie Foster to meet with the aliens (see attached). Without addressing whether your mechanism has a prayer of having any influence on greavity - I think you're going to have to post up a drawing or sketch to better explain what you're trying to build. Mechanisms that spin on two orthogonal axes at the same tme are pretty common - consider the gears in a differential of a car, for example. But I'm not following what you are having trouble figuring out.
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Old Oct 16th 2012, 09:29 PM   #3
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Good movie but no my mechanism is not like that. Imagine a ball that has two pins sticking out from either opposite side(east and west). The ball is spinning from north to south in a upward or downward fashion. The two pins are rotating exchanging east and west positions, along an equatorial plane, repeatedly. So this is one(single) hollow object that spins in a vertical plane and in an horizontal plane at the same time. I have found no mechinism that moves in this fashion, thus far. The thing that I can't figure out, is how to calculate the vertical motion speed that would then induce a perpendicular force causing the ball to spin in a horizontal direction. Lets see if I can clear it up even further. Take a bycle wheel and spin it holding the axle. The tires outer rim will tend to move perpendicular to the vertical spinning. How fast must one spin the tire so that the rate of spin is the same in both a vertical direction and in a horizontal one..

Thanks for your reply, I'll try to post a picture if this explination isn't clear

Thanks again
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Old Oct 17th 2012, 07:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by nullflux8 View Post
Take a bycle wheel and spin it holding the axle. The tires outer rim will tend to move perpendicular to the vertical spinning. How fast must one spin the tire so that the rate of spin is the same in both a vertical direction and in a horizontal one.
Let me see if I understand - you're suggesting that if I rotate the bicycle handle bars so that the wheel spins abount a vertical axis, this induces a motion of the tire rim about it's axle (i.e horizontal axis)? I think not. However - if the wheel is spinning and an external force is applied that creates a torque about an orthogonal axis, a torqued is induced that causes the wheel to turn abouth the 3rd orthogonal axis - this is due to conservation of momentum and is what makes a top stay upright.

As for a mechaism - wouldn't the attached do it? Simply connect the two shafts via a gear set to rotate at the same rate, or spin them with motors that are synched.
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Old Oct 17th 2012, 05:54 PM   #5
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No,no there are no handle bars.

Your discription in regards to consevation of momentium is percisely the action that my mechanism behaves at, but the initial spinning is in a vertical plane, unlike a spinning top. The external force is from the pins riding in a circular channel around its' equatoral plane. So basicly a ring/channel around the ball. That ring is housed in a cylindercal pipe which sits on the ground. It's very much like a PowerBall wrist exerciser or what they used to call a Dynabee.

The initial force that sends the ball spinning is an electric coil I designed. I call it my 1/2Sphere coil. Its interesting how it moves. As the ball picks up speed it is doing so only with vertical action, no horzontial movement. When it reaches a certian speed (hence the post) the ball starts moving along its equator. As the speed picks up (adding voltage) both pins will ride on opposite sides of the 'C' channel causing it to move faster along the equatoral line. When the pins have reached 360 degrees from their starting postions (max speed) from there it starts to slow and reverse its direction of rotation. And continue to do this untill I unplug it and let it slow to a dead stop.

It is my hope that the picture is much clearer now and somewhat more confused as well

Still the question remains... How can I measure the speed of rotation so that vertical and horizontal rate of spin can be measured and be the same?

Till then
Nullflux8

Last edited by nullflux8; Oct 17th 2012 at 08:06 PM.
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Old Oct 17th 2012, 06:05 PM   #6
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"As for a mechaism - wouldn't the attached do it? Simply connect the two shafts via a gear set to rotate at the same rate, or spin them with motors that are synched."

The attached would do if you only want the ball to realize anti-gravity. My intent is to have the motors, you mention, realize it as well.
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Old Oct 18th 2012, 05:50 AM   #7
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Please attach a picture that shows exactly what it is you're trying to measure, because your description is very difficult to follow. You've used terms like "spinning in a vertical plan," which I would assume mean that the axis of rotation is horizontal. Then you mention the ball's "equator," which I assume is in the vertical plane, since the axis of rotation is horizontal. The pipe is "sitting on the ground," but does that mean it's horizontal, so the axis of rotation of the ball is aligned with the center of the cylinder? Then the pins are in a channel inside the cylinder, so they are oriented to slide along the ball's "equator," right? So at this point it sounds like a ball spinning inside a cylinder. As you can see it's difficult for me to understand what you're getting at. So again - please attach a sketch or picture.

As for how to measure rotational velocities - there are many types of sensors that you could use. For example you could attach a magnet to the ball and measure how frequently it passes by a sensor attached to the cylinder. Or you could measure rotation optically - for example with a video camera.
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Old Oct 18th 2012, 10:05 PM   #8
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I'm not able to tell if my attachment worked. Tracking the ball with a video camera is a very good possibility, Thanks. The ball is already housed with magnets so I can use a Hall sensor. I'll need to post this in order to see if my attachment worked. It's an edited copy of your second attachment, hope you don't mind? I've drawn in the pipes side walls and the 'C' channel and erased the stand. As drawn both arrows point in the direction of travel that must be at the same rate of speed. The issue is the pins are only 6mm in dia and the ball 100mm in dia. Since the pins run in a guide, every time the pin turns once how far has it traveled along the guide compared to the ball turning. Oh spinning is with the rotational axis, turning is the pins exchanging places.

Thanks for your patients and understanding. It's my hope others are reading this post and will soon join with their own posts.

Till then
Nulllfux8
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Old Oct 19th 2012, 06:27 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by nullflux8 View Post
The issue is the pins are only 6mm in dia and the ball 100mm in dia. Since the pins run in a guide, every time the pin turns once how far has it traveled along the guide compared to the ball turning.
For the ball to spin in both axes at the same rate, that means one complete turn in one axis equals one complete spin on the other axis. So each guide pin makes one complete spin in the same time that it takes to revolve around the channel for one complete turn. You should be able to measure that without much difficulty. I don't understand why the pin being smaller diameter than the ball is an issue - you don't care what the linear velocity is, do you? I thought you only care about the rotational velocity?
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Old Oct 21st 2012, 01:10 PM   #10
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"you don't care what the linear velocity is, do you? I thought you only care about the rotational velocity? "

It's my understanding that, that is what one needs to factor in. For me RV is LV but only in a circle in an horizontal plane ( meaning perpendicular to garvity, at a right angle to.) If you concider, I'm layman here, When one throws a ball into the air. Its not floating but it is going up. Same goes for the Ball/mechinism we speak of. I'm merely saying that Yes ballance is acheived by spinning in line with gravity. But now rotate that same mass in horizontal plane, to gravity as well I feel that we will realize "moving away from the Earth." Earths center in this case...

I shot a small vid earlier today. I'm still learning how to get it in my computer, any help anyone....

Till Then
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