Physics Help Forum Physics Of Optics And Time

 Special and General Relativity Special and General Relativity Physics Help Forum

 Feb 17th 2015, 02:10 AM #2 Junior Member   Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 17 Optics And Time THE CORRESPONDING DISTANCE EQUATION; The corresponding distance can be derived through a more detailed form but let me use this short cut. From equation 1 T = t + d/C since t = d/v then: T = do /v Therefore: do /v = d/v + d/C do = d (1+v/C) ........................................………………5 T and do is the respective time and distance travelled by the car, as measured by the stationary observer. t and d is the respective time and distance travelled by the car as measured by the car or a clock attached to the car. d/C is the change in the physical property of the light wave, which is also a change in the period of the light waves that were emitted when the car is at rest and when it is in motion.. This effect has been misinterpreted by other writers who claim that light travels a longer distance in a moving frame and thereby causing time to run differently in different frames. But it is very clear from the above derivation of time and distance that light travels through the same distance in all frames and time also runs the same in all frames. But what happens is that, when a disturbance is created in the waves of light due to the motion of an object, this disturbance does not just die out of existence. It goes on to affect the observation and measurements of all observers who depend on the light waves for their observation and measurement. This change in the physical property of the light waves can make physical measurements of different frames to appear relative depending on the magnitude of the disturbance produced in the waves of light.. The laws of physics are very absolute in the sense that in reality, light travels the same distance relative to every frame BUT the laws of physics could be relative in the sense that in measurement, observers of different frames might measure different values for the distance travelled by the light waves as a result of the behavior of light waves which I explained above. Also, the measurements of some frames are better/more valid than the measurement of other frames, depending on the resultant change in the physical property of the light waves from both the system of the observer and the event being observed. It seems from the derived mathematical equations that the measurements recorded by a person attached to the frame of the event are always more accurate, and this must be because of the fact that the person attached to the frame of event does not depend on the surrounding light waves for its measurement. Of course, no one needs light waves to walk from point A to point B but someone surely needs light waves to know that an object has moved from point A to point B. It does follow that (The motion of the Car results in changes in the physical properties of the waves (Doppler's Effect); The changes in the physical properties of the light waves results in changes/Relativistic Effects in the measurements of observers of different frames). In the earlier version of this proposition, this, I was referring to as "Nwobu's Effect" ( T - t = ƛ - ʎ /C = d/C ). From the above derivations, the below conclusions can be deducted. 1. The velocity of any matter travelling through space is independent of any frame observing and measuring its motion. 2. Some matters can travel faster than the speed of light. 3. Some frames are better than others in the measurement of physical quantities. 4. Time runs the same in all frames even though our measuring devices may record otherwise. 5. Relative and absoluteness co-exist. 6. Between two or more inertial reference frames, an event which is present tense to one frame may not be present tense to other frames but may be past or future tense to other frames 7. Optical observation of our past time/world and its mathematical estimation is perfectly possible. 8. The future is not optically visible but is mathematically solvable. For further reading on the complete article, search for the recent verison on Google. thanks
 Feb 17th 2015, 10:48 AM #3 Senior Member     Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bedford, England Posts: 668 While I see the general direction of your thought, and the individual steps are generally reasonable, you seem to be getting a bit tangled in some of your arguments, and therefore coming away with incorrect conclusions. The starting point of the time taken for the propagation of information seems sensible. You are correct that different observers determining the time it takes for a moving object to pass two points will give different answers due to the time it takes for the information to propagate to them. Slowing down the propagation of information (to the speed of sound) might help clarify: Imagine an observer at the side of a (straight) railway, as a train passes it whistles, some time later it whistles again. Put a second observer on the side of the track midway between these two whistling points. The second observer will record a shorter time between hearing the two whistles than the first observer. This is all fine, but I start to loose you when you start to bring the doppler effect in... __________________ You have GOT to Laugh !
 Feb 17th 2015, 03:44 PM #4 Junior Member   Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 17 Hello MBW, thanks for your comment and for taking time to go through the article. yes i agree with what you explained. But the reason why the proposition included Doppler's effect is because when an observable object moves during an experiment, it just affects the emitted light waves as a result of its motion. The mere motion of the object brings the Doppler's Effect into existence. Also, I used the Doppler's Effect to Prove further the origin and meaning of the factor d/C which came out in the equation T - t = d/C . And from the equation, I was able to come to the conclusion that the change in the properties of the light waves, affects measurement of observers of different frames in a relativistic manner. The factor d/C is a change is the period of the light waves emitted at rest and while in Motion. while T - t is a change in time of motion of an object measured by a stationary observer and a clock attached to the moving object. The Doppler's Effect as we know it, is simply the effect of a moving object on the emitted light waves. My proposition on the other hand is simply the effect of the disturbed light waves on the experimental measurements of different observers. Mathematically T - t = ƛ - ʎ /C = d/C . Thank you. and let me know if you have any more questions.
 Feb 19th 2015, 10:44 AM #5 Senior Member     Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bedford, England Posts: 668 Sorry that I am picking away at this so slowly, (I haven't got much spare capacity at the moment) In your equation 3, your car is moving just exactly one wavelength. Is that correct? Again moving this into a "normal world scale" with the train and trying to paraphrase: Let the train sound its whistle for exactly N cycles of the whistle frequency. The train will then have moved N wavelengths between starting and stopping the whistle. Position two observers at the side of the track, one behind the point at which the train starts whistling, one ahead of the point where it stops whistling. The 2 observers will disagree about the time duration of the whistle blowing, They will also disagree about the pitch of the whistle, However they will both agree that the whistle was blowing for N cycles of the wavelength they heard. I'm still not sure how this leads to your later conclusions. __________________ You have GOT to Laugh !
 Feb 20th 2015, 05:48 AM #6 Junior Member   Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 17 Hello MBW. thanks once again for the time and comment. The car actually did not move through a wavelength. it simply moved through the difference between the wavelengths. that is why the equation 3 has the form ƛ - ʎ = d = vt ................ 3 . You might refer to the Doppler's theory for a better understanding of what i did on the equation 3. Also, you wrote " I'm still not sure how this leads to your later conclusions."" Do you mean the conclusion ƛ - ʎ = d = vt ....??? well, let me know if there is something that i am failing to explain. thanks
 Feb 22nd 2015, 04:06 PM #7 Senior Member     Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bedford, England Posts: 668 So basically what you are saying is that if we determine the wavelength of the train whistle, with the train and observer both stationary, then measure a distance along the train track equal to one wavelength of the whistle, then have the moving train start and finish whistling at these two points. the change in the observed wavelength (between an observer on the train and an observer at the side of the track) due to the Doppler shift will be equal to the difference in whistle duration observed by the observer on the train and the observer by the side of the track divided by the speed of sound. __________________ You have GOT to Laugh !