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 Sep 27th 2017, 09:27 PM #1 Member   Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 30 Why this seesaw is working against physics laws Dear Members, See the attached link. Now I explain in simple words how it will work. In the video you can see a seesaw having two ball each side .the red color ball side arm of seesaw is slightly heavier than green color side arm.the weight of each ball is 30 gram and weight of each box is 20 gram. The red ball is a counterweight and green ball will work to create energy. The green ball will be free to move but counterweight will be permanently mounted. Now I explain: When I lift up the arm of green color ball up to a certain height and then you can see the movement of ball in the video that ball is moving due to a slope . But when I left the arm then the ball is getting back it's previous position or in other words the seesaw is getting back it's horizontal position due to overunity. It is totally against physics laws as ,as per physics laws the seesaw shouldn't get back it's horizontal position but in the video you can see it clearly. Now replace this ball with 10 kg.ball and counterweight 10.200 kg.and calculate input and output using potential energy formula. In this mechanism don't think about input as input will be very minimal but think about output. The movement of ball in the box will work as a output so the length of arm and length of box will be also important. The ball mass=10 kg. The length of arm is=1 meter The length of box is=80 cm. The width will be depend on the diameter of ball. Now calculations: Input is very minimal Output if a 10 kg ball will be rolled down from 10 cm height(though the height will be more) than using potential energy formula 10*10*.10=10 joule So the output will be 10 joule but input will be very minimal. I would like to insist on some following points. (1)the angle of box will be 120 degree downside(see the Sketch) (2) two piston generator will be mounted on the sidewall of the box. If still you have any doubts then pls tell me. (3)there is overunity in this mechanism otherwise seesaw wouldn't get back it's horizontal position. I request you that if you any doubt regarding to understanding then pls tell me as I am ready to clear your all doubts. Vikram Kumar Gupta Attached Thumbnails
 Sep 27th 2017, 10:00 PM #2 Physics Team   Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boston's North Shore Posts: 1,315 Too much to read. I'll say this - ITs not a seesaw. A seesaw is a is a long, narrow board supported by a single pivot point, That is not what is shown in the video. It in no way violates the laws of physics either. What is shown in the video can at best be referred to as a complex seesaw aka compound pendulum which in no way is expected to behave like a seesaw. This is akin to comparing a complex pendulum with an ordinary pendulum. To see how different their behaviours are see the animation of a double pendulum (an example of one such complex pendulum) at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_pendulum topsquark likes this.
 Sep 27th 2017, 10:15 PM #3 Member   Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 30 Dear Sir, I would like to tell you that when I changed the angle of the box of green ball at 180 degree then the seesaw didn't get back it's initial position. You say that it is not a seesaw but a seesaw is a seesaw if it is pivoted weather it is a narrow beam or flat beam. Now you say that it is working like a double pendulum but I would like to tell you that the red ball will be permanently attached .in this mechanism only green ball will move though I couldn't show you in the video but in the sketch properly. Please again consider.
Sep 27th 2017, 10:54 PM   #4
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 Originally Posted by vkrmvkrm11 You say that it is not a seesaw but a seesaw is a seesaw if it is pivoted weather it is a narrow beam or flat beam.
You don't get it. What you have is not a seesaw because you added to it, i.e. those balls in shoots. When you did that you changed the entire object from a seesaw to a compound seesaw and they behave differently.

 Originally Posted by vkrmvkrm11 Now you say that it is working like a double pendulum ..
When you come go to a physics forum like this you need to read the responses carefully which you clearly didn't since I never said it was working like a double pendulum. What I said was This is akin to comparing a complex pendulum with an ordinary pendulum. That means that comparing a seesaw with that contraption you created is like comparing a pendulum with a compound pendulum.

Your claim is that "this seesaw is working against physics laws" which is untrue. That contraption is working precisely according to the laws of physics. Calling it a seesaw is your mistake. Are you so arrogant that you can't accept that the proper name is "compound seesaw" or "complex seesaw"?

We're no dummies here and you appear to think there are. Not!

In any case you're not even using it like a seesaw because that would mean putting a person on each end who when their end reaches the ground they push off. All you were doing was pushing one end to the top and letting it go.

Sorry. I don't need to be rude but for the last 20 years I've seen people in these forums endlessly try to prove how something they've imagined violates the laws of physics. In all cases they simply didn't understand the laws of physics. The same thing has been going on for centuries and not one of them were right. The only thing that's happened was that physicists observe nature more closely and have only found modifications and additions to it. Those modifications don't apply to class experiments.

Last edited by Pmb; Sep 27th 2017 at 11:11 PM.

 Sep 27th 2017, 11:33 PM #5 Member   Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 30 Dear Sir Ok.but what about my calculations.my main purpose is to get more output than input . I shall be very grateful to you if you could give me answer of these questions. (1) as per sketch how much energy will be generated if the 10 kg.ball hit a piston generator from the height of a10 cm. (2) what do you think about input as it will be very minimal. Vikram
 Sep 30th 2017, 11:04 AM #6 Member   Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 30 The most important point is in this mechanism we can increase the potential energy of the ball as per our desire by doing some changes in the design of box.and yes in other words the potential energy is the most important and if it is increasing after applying minimal input then the output will be more than input. it is not a big hurdle to increase the potential energy in this mechanism. The green ball will move between piston generators and will hit these generator .when the ball hit the generator then in response generator will work to hit it back and this will be an advantage in this mechanism. There is nothing to think more and more in this mechanism as we are increasing potential energy by using minimal input. There are only three points. (1) the input is very minimal to lift a heavy mass(10kg) (2) we can increase potential energy of 10 kg.mass using minimal input. (3) the seesaw is getting back it's initial position without using any extra energy. If these points works in a system then no physics can prevent it to get Overunity
Sep 30th 2017, 11:35 PM   #7
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 Originally Posted by vkrmvkrm11 Dear Sir Ok.but what about my calculations.my main purpose is to get more output than input .
That's impossible. It would violate the first or second law of thermodynamics. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

What you have is a classical mechanical system and its reasonably simple to show that the total energy of such any such system is constant.

What you're talking about is called a []perpetual motion machine[/i] which amateurs have been, unsuccessfully, trying to create since the middle ages. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...otion_machines

 Originally Posted by vkrmvkrm11 I shall be very grateful to you if you could give me answer of these questions. (1) as per sketch how much energy will be generated if the 10 kg.ball hit a piston generator from the height of a10 cm.
That depends on how fast the ball is moving when it started from 10cm and it depends on the mass of the ball and the construction of the ball and wall. The energy that the ball has when dropped from rest in a gravitational field is K = mgh where m is the mass of the ball, g = 9.9m/s^2 and h = 10 cm. "much energy will be generated if the 10 kg. ball hit a piston generator" is not a clear question to me since the ball doesn't generate energy it merely has (kinetic) energy. I don't know what a "piston generator" is. Not a clear term.

 Originally Posted by vkrmvkrm11 (2) what do you think about input as it will be very minimal.
Not a clear question. What are you asking me when you wrote that? What is this "output" that you're referring to?

 Oct 1st 2017, 01:38 AM #8 Member   Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 30 Dear Sir, I have attached a sketch.as per sketch two generator (piston) works generate energy by hitting with object or Mass. Now as per video i' m lifting up green color ball and after getting a certain height the box with green ball is getting initial position. Now suppose box length is 1 meter and ball mass is 10 kg.so as per mgh formula to lift up the ball up to 80 cm height required energy is Mgh=10*10*.80=80joule But in this mechanism input energy will be only maximum 3 joule but ball will generate 80 joule energy as a output.there will be no need of extra energy to get initial position back as this system will work as per video. I will insist that the ball will not roll down but fall down from the box after getting a certain height. This is not a big hurdle and can be solved easily bysome changes in the design of box. See the attached sketch. Attached Thumbnails
 Oct 1st 2017, 01:43 AM #9 Member   Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 30 There is a clear cut Overunity in this mechanism.if you still have doubts then please tell me.
 Oct 1st 2017, 04:01 AM #10 Member   Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 30 I reshoot the video In this video you can see easily how ball will fall down from a certain height.i have used a pin to hold the ball but changes in the design of box will work to hold and drop the ball after getting a certain height. There are three mechanical advantage in this mechanism. (1)The seesaw will itself get it's initial position. (2)when ball will hit a piston after falling down then the piston will also work to hit the ball in response. (3)when ball hit the piston generator then the counterweight tilt further and will hit with a spring.this spring then will work to bounce back the counterweight.in this way these three mechanical advantage will work to reduce the input in this mechanism but out will be more.

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