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Old Apr 7th 2017, 09:36 AM   #11
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Thanks ChipB,
Do you use any lines of reference for any turn?
For instance, tangent line thru the apex?

Are you aware of any lines of reference that could be applied to all turns?
(Similar to my sketches or other).

Maybe this is more a simracing thing because we have to imagine space and have no depth perception, (yet), so lines of absolute relation have more importance?

The racing line is a trajectory either way, real or virtual.
More so near the limits of friction, or only there?
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Old Apr 7th 2017, 07:53 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by simracer View Post
Thanks ChipB,
Do you use any lines of reference for any turn?
For instance, tangent line thru the apex?
Not really. You get a feel for turn-in point through practice - lots and lots of times around the track trying different lines to see what seems to works best. So it's trial and error. Each time through you look for landmarks to key off - perhaps the brake markers, or marks on the pavement, or changes in asphalt color - to be consistent lap after lap in terms of braking point, turn-in, and to help guide you to the apex and then track out. There are usually striped gators in the vicinity of the turn-in and exit points, and also at the apex, so you look for those to help guide you. I can't emphasize enough that every car has a different ideal line - a rear-engine/rear drive Porshe woks best not following the same line as a front-engine/rear-drive BMW, or a front-engine/quattro-drive Audi. So there are no magic rules. It takes lots of experience to get close to right.

Originally Posted by simracer View Post
Are you aware of any lines of reference that could be applied to all turns?
(Similar to my sketches or other).
Definitely not. As noted previously what may work well in turn 1 most likely does not work well at all for turn 2, depending on track width, elevation changes, the tightness of the turn, whether the radius of the turn is constant, decreasing or increasing, and most importantly what comes after the turn. If the turn leads to a long straight you want to track out wide and accelerate hard. If the turn leads to a quick switch back for the next turn you probably want to pinch the exit so that you are set up properly for that next turn, allowing you to do a wide track out from it onto the next straight.

Originally Posted by simracer View Post
Maybe this is more a simracing thing because we have to imagine space and have no depth perception, (yet), so lines of absolute relation have more importance?
I agree - I find video racing very difficult, but I haven't done it much.

Originally Posted by simracer View Post
The racing line is a trajectory either way, real or virtual.
More so near the limits of friction, or only there?
All paths are trajectories, if that's what you mean, at the limit or not. Please note that you never want to be "at the limit" - that's called "crashing," and while there are few consequences in a video game, it's definitely something to avoid in real life. Now, "the limit of friction" is different for different skill drivers, so the trick is to know your limits, and slowly push to 80%, and then 90%, always aware of your limitations in that particular car. Get good and you find that driving near your 90% limit is faster than everyone else's 90% - that's how you win a race.

Just for fun take a look at the following video - it's of Sabine Schmitz driving a Porsche GT3-R at the Nurburgring last year. She starts last in 48th position (due to an issue in qualifying) and finished the first lap in 2nd - in the rain! Watch her hands - the way she feels the limit of grip and adjusts in tenths of second to catch a potential slide and get the car planted again. I doubt that video games work like that. It's amazing.


Last edited by ChipB; Apr 10th 2017 at 06:50 AM.
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Old Apr 14th 2017, 07:15 AM   #13
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Thanks for the link.
Enjoyed it and another with Sabine drifting the Ring in a minivan.


Originally Posted by ChipB View Post
I doubt that video games work like that. It's amazing.
Maybe not exactly, and for sure not with the same risk, but pretty sure the better sims do work very much like real cars and offer similar capability to feather them along and keep them on the edge.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/fo.../126099/page1/

When racing a computer there is a limited and very specific set of feedback routines that tell the driver what is happening.

It takes awhile for newbies to figure this out...probably never without force feedback steering and decent pedals.
Best guess is it takes several weeks or months just to start developing skills.
If you don't know what cues there are or how to use them it is not much fun.

Visual cues are less important than sound of tires, indicating slip angle and grip/traction, and force feedback to the steering wheel, indicating lateral loading, which together tell the driver how close the car is to the edge.

Once using these cues is mastered pretty sure that any real car motion can be replicated in simulation.
It also depends a lot on the quality of the sim.
A not so good sound file will not tell you much about what's happening at the tire patch, for instance

Unlike real racing, perhaps, the racing line in sims follows much more closely a mathematically perfect line.
JMO this is much more important with respect to over-taking and passing than to going purple.


Link to a just found it fun site about race car dynamics, (lots of physics/math stuff there that I don't understand):

Racing Car Dynamics - Your technical blog on race cars

Last edited by simracer; Apr 14th 2017 at 03:28 PM.
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