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Old May 8th 2012, 03:46 PM   #1
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Expansion of Universe- Dark Energy, or Multiverse?

First, I'd like to clarify that I'm in no way a physicist, not yet, anyway. I'm merely a young college student fascinated by all things..."big-picture" physics, for lack of a better word. As such, my scope is very narrow, and my understanding, limited. That being said, the following, "theory," or thought, is probably a better word for it, likely holds no water or, is in no way plausible due to some physical law I'm not aware of. So please be gentle when you poke holes in this.
Also, I don't realistically believe this.

We attribute the expansion of the universe to dark energy, but what if there isn't actually any dark energy? What if we are actually part of a multiverse, and to my understanding, a multiverse implies that all possible configurations of a universe are recognized. So what if this means that not only are there universes out there with different physical laws than ours, but also universes with higher dimensions as well?

My "theory" is this: It's not dark energy pushing our universe from within. It's another higher dimensional universe situated in some close proximity to ours, and because it is of a higher dimension, it's gravity pulls on our universe from all directions.

What a higher dimensional universe looks like, I haven't a clue. I understand that this is a vague explanation, and I haven't the knowledge to explain any sort of math that would support this. Calculus 3 is all I've got under my belt, but I really would like to know what is wrong with this theory, as I'm sure there is a lot. And again, this was simply a thought that I had.
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Old Oct 5th 2012, 03:18 PM   #2
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.......but for some reason, I would like to stand by the theory of dark energy. It's a very plausible reason to explain the expansion of universe and is well taking its root in physics.

I'm skeptical about means of existence of higher dimension. As higher dimension may do exist but you can't predict the way it exist. And if any force is exerted from those dimension to our world, it has to be mediated via our 3d dimensions to have an effect in it, and that yet may called "dark energy". Either way, the thing that cause the expansion is "dark energy".
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Old Oct 9th 2012, 08:01 AM   #3
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Wink Multi...what?

Hey Hortino,
To begin with, if the physics community ever came up with a moronic idea is the concept of the "multiverse". In analogy it will be like to divide Atlantic Ocean in to smaller parts and name them "atlantic oceans" flowing within the "multiocean". The Universe is One and One alone. It may there be colonies of matter (galaxy clusters etc) as well as vast spaces of void, which paradoxically, is not empty at all (read Krauss' Universe from nothing). Parallel universes, multiverse, extra dimensions and all these nonsense are products of manipulated mathematics invented to support the despair that is called "string theory". Heraclitus has given a spot on definition for the Universe 2500 years ago: "The Universe is not created by any man or god. It has always been and always will be, an everlasting fire with no beginning and no end".
This is a very breif comment on a subject that can ever end talking about it. My suggestion will be to read Einstein's "cosmological constant" theory of which he himself discarded as a mistake but perhaps he was wrong. If you wish to discuss this matter further we are more than welcome to call me or email me so we can arrange to talk.
Take care and welcome to the forum.

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Old May 30th 2013, 03:46 PM   #4
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Wink Physics has plenty of weird ideas

Like Hortino I am not a physicist, but I enjoy trying to follow the (probably heavily dumbed down) descriptions of the prevailing ideas in physics, that are available to the curious amateur.

It sometimes appears to me that the physics community is currently in a similar position to the pre-Copernicus astronomers, who kept adding ever more complicated epicycles to their models of planetary orbits.
I suspect that there is a fundamental flaw in the current concepts, which is impeding progress.
Someday someone will have a eureka moment, then everyone else will smack their foreheads and say "doh"!

In the meantime there is plenty of opportunity to speculate wildly, and play with some weird ideas.
If there is one thing physics is not short of, it is weird ideas!

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Old Oct 8th 2013, 06:58 PM   #5
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Everything we know about physics right now is probably wrong.
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Old Oct 9th 2013, 02:19 AM   #6
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Oh boy. Where to start??

Originally Posted by Hortino View Post
...
We attribute the expansion of the universe to dark energy, but what if there isn't actually any dark energy? What if we are actually part of a multiverse, and to my understanding, a multiverse implies that all possible configurations of a universe are recognized. So what if this means that not only are there universes out there with different physical laws than ours, but also universes with higher dimensions as well?

My "theory" is this: It's not dark energy pushing our universe from within. It's another higher dimensional universe situated in some close proximity to ours, and because it is of a higher dimension, it's gravity pulls on our universe from all directions.

What a higher dimensional universe looks like, I haven't a clue. I understand that this is a vague explanation, and I haven't the knowledge to explain any sort of math that would support this. Calculus 3 is all I've got under my belt, but I really would like to know what is wrong with this theory, as I'm sure there is a lot. And again, this was simply a thought that I had.
The current expansion of the Universe is due to two causes. The first is the remnants of the expansion due to the Big Bang, the second is the acceleration of the universal expansion rate due to what we call "dark energy." We have no idea what dark energy is...at this point it is merely a catch-all term.

Originally Posted by Germanlongstrike View Post
.......but for some reason, I would like to stand by the theory of dark energy. It's a very plausible reason to explain the expansion of universe and is well taking its root in physics.

I'm skeptical about means of existence of higher dimension. As higher dimension may do exist but you can't predict the way it exist. And if any force is exerted from those dimension to our world, it has to be mediated via our 3d dimensions to have an effect in it, and that yet may called "dark energy". Either way, the thing that cause the expansion is "dark energy".
One theory of gravity that has come from M-Theory is that the force of gravity actually comes from other universes situated near the universe which is our "brane." So gravity comes in from the outside. I've heard of the concept...I don't know how much support this has in the Physics community but there is absolutely no experimental proof of this.

Originally Posted by RelativityIsWrong View Post
Everything we know about physics right now is probably wrong.
Ooookay. Um.... That's a pretty broad statement. There are certainly inadequacies in many theories but the theories included in, say, the Standard Model have some pretty good experimental support. Are these theories perfect? Hardly. Are they good enough to work with for now? Definitely. At some point experiment may disprove some or all of these but I see no reason to say that we are barking up the wrong tree.

Do you have any specific ideas to share about this? It's a pretty catch-all statement.

-Dan
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Old Oct 9th 2013, 07:40 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by topsquark View Post
Oh boy. Where to start??


The current expansion of the Universe is due to two causes. The first is the remnants of the expansion due to the Big Bang, the second is the acceleration of the universal expansion rate due to what we call "dark energy." We have no idea what dark energy is...at this point it is merely a catch-all term.



One theory of gravity that has come from M-Theory is that the force of gravity actually comes from other universes situated near the universe which is our "brane." So gravity comes in from the outside. I've heard of the concept...I don't know how much support this has in the Physics community but there is absolutely no experimental proof of this.


Ooookay. Um.... That's a pretty broad statement. There are certainly inadequacies in many theories but the theories included in, say, the Standard Model have some pretty good experimental support. Are these theories perfect? Hardly. Are they good enough to work with for now? Definitely. At some point experiment may disprove some or all of these but I see no reason to say that we are barking up the wrong tree.

Do you have any specific ideas to share about this? It's a pretty catch-all statement.

-Dan
Historically, it's true. Every time we get to a deeper level, what we thought we knew mostly turns out to be wrong. Newtonian gravity worked fine too - until general relativity proved it wrong. Quantum mechanics is not at the deepest level; a lot of it will probably be discarded later. Same goes for relativity. Physics' evolutions are not kind to the older versions.
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Old Oct 9th 2013, 08:39 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by RelativityIsWrong View Post
Historically, it's true. Every time we get to a deeper level, what we thought we knew mostly turns out to be wrong. Newtonian gravity worked fine too - until general relativity proved it wrong. Quantum mechanics is not at the deepest level; a lot of it will probably be discarded later. Same goes for relativity. Physics' evolutions are not kind to the older versions.
My objection to the statement "Everything we know about physics right now is probably wrong" is that it is far too broad.

I don't think anyone denies that there is a force of gravity and that on large scales it is given by Newton's gravitational formula, or if need be, by GR. I don't think anyone is going to deny the existence of an electron and their uses in electronics. Certainly the macroscopic version of the laws and applications of Thermodynamics are still in force. I could go on and on.

As long as we set the limits on what theories can do or can't do in certain situations there is nothing at all wrong about what we know about Physics.

-Dan
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Old Nov 26th 2013, 12:04 PM   #9
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I believe the higher order universe you site is really just the universe that lies beyond what we can observe... and that universe is infinite!

Originally Posted by Germanlongstrike View Post
.......but for some reason, I would like to stand by the theory of dark energy. It's a very plausible reason to explain the expansion of universe and is well taking its root in physics.

I'm skeptical about means of existence of higher dimension. As higher dimension may do exist but you can't predict the way it exist. And if any force is exerted from those dimension to our world, it has to be mediated via our 3d dimensions to have an effect in it, and that yet may called "dark energy". Either way, the thing that cause the expansion is "dark energy".
My feeling is that dark energy is just the nature of the most primal building block of our universe. that building block is a constantly increasing flow of energy that is responsible for the very existence of the... well, for existence.

Originally Posted by RelativityIsWrong View Post
Everything we know about physics right now is probably wrong.
Most of what we know about physics right now is probably wrong and right!
It's a duality thing...

Originally Posted by topsquark View Post
I don't think anyone denies that there is a force of gravity and that on large scales it is given by Newton's gravitational formula, or if need be, by GR. I don't think anyone is going to deny the existence of an electron and their uses in electronics. Certainly the macroscopic version of the laws and applications of Thermodynamics are still in force. I could go on and on.

-Dan
I could disagree... sort of... Gravity could be the manifestation of a mechanical interaction that we are unaware of, however that could probably be said of all "forces". Geez... there's that duality thing again.
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