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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:02 PM   #11
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In that case I don't have an opinion right now. I don't like to form opinions about deep questions until I've taken a great deal of time to think about them. There is the question of whether logical absolutes apply to a particular reality and whether we can actually know what the true logical absolutes really are. E.g. "Something cannot bring itself into existence." That sounds right doens't it? But I'm not too sure. What if the universe before the big bang was an infinitely complex quantum state which went through random configurations until one came about which was able to think. When this happened it took over and started to manipulate the quantum state until it became more and more coherent eventually becoming more and more intelligent. Did this thing bring itself into existance? Yes and no.
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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:04 PM   #12
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Did this thing bring itself into existance? Yes and no.
That's assuming that event actually occurs (a rather big assumption).
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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:04 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Deco View Post
I do believe that things like something is either true or false
can apply to a system that doesn't follow our laws of physics
Let's try that out on the statement blue is a nice color. Is that either true or false? No. Somethings are neither true nor false.
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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:06 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Pmb View Post
Let's try that out on the statement blue is a nice color. Is that either true or false? No. Somethings are neither true nor false.

Logic is objective. Opinons are subjective. They aren't compatible with each other.
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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:06 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Deco View Post
That's assuming that event actually occurs (a rather big assumption).
I was referring to the scenario of a reality in which that was the case. I didn't mention it as it being something that actually happened. So if it did happen did it bring itself into existance?
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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Deco View Post
Logic is objective. Opinons are subjective. They aren't compatible with each other.
That was the point. Not all things are objective and therefore not all things fall under the statement "something is either true or false"

Okay. Enough for me. I can drone on with this forever and its time for my part to end. Thanks.
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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:10 PM   #17
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IF that happened, yes it chose to bring itself into existence (also assuming it happened the way you described it).
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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:11 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Pmb View Post
That was the point. Not all things are objective and therefore not all things fall under the statement "something is either true or false"

Okay. Enough for me. I can drone on with this forever and its time for my part to end. Thanks.
Showing that something does not fall under the header "logic", does not prove that logical absolutes don't exist outside our physical laws.
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Old Jul 30th 2009, 11:55 PM   #19
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Sorry. My reply was to the omnipotency replies. Have edited my reply to clarify.
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Old Jul 31st 2009, 12:06 AM   #20
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"Something cannot bring itself into existence."


If it has to come into existence, at present it doesnt exist.

If it doesn't exist, how can it be the cause for anything?

Hence i would say that a thing cannot cause itself.
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