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Old Jul 21st 2017, 02:23 PM   #1
Pmb
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What are UFOs?

I almost never talk about this stuff because it attracts all sorts of wackos. Perhaps here is he safest place to discuss it. Here are two good reasons to take them seriously:

Passenger jet pilots 'saw UFO above plane' on SAME day tragic MS804 plunged into sea | Weird | News | Express.co.uk

'UFO attacks ISIS' in bizarre footage showing mid-air explosion and mystery aircraft in the sky - Mirror Online

One of the reasons I've avoided discussing this in the past is the automatic assumptions made by people discussing the subject. The term UFO really does mean an Unidentified Flying Object. It doesn't mean that its an alien spacecraft from another world. This jumping to conclusions might be why some people choose not to use the term UFO but merely speak of an unknown object so that the term "unknown" is crystal clear. Perhaps that was what was in the mind of the person who wrote this:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/South/05/...ref=sitesearch

One reason for finding an answer is to address certain speculations in other areas of science and philosophy such as the philosophical question Where are all the time travelers? Here's an example of such speculation to date

Philosophy of...: 'If time-travel is possible, where are all the time-travellers?'
...
  1. If time-travel is possible, then at some point in the future, humans will time-travel.
  2. If humans will time-travel, they will travel back to our time.
  3. If humans will travel back to our time, then we should have encountered them.
  4. We have not encountered any time travelers.
Therefore, time travel is not possible.
...
... as if our time was interesting enough for time travelers or that they're all that anxious to make their presence known. I know that I wouldn't for darn sure. I'd be too scared of the government capturing me in an attempt to get me to tell them how to time travel.

What if UFOs are actually not alien spacecraft at all but time travelers from the distant future? Then there's no need for UFOs to be able to travel interstellar distances, right?

I myself have had an encounter with a UFO once, if not more than once. It was nerve racking since it lasted about an hour. A month or so ago I finally realized that I have no recollection of how the encounter ended. That made me nervous!

I'll write it up and post it.

Last edited by Pmb; Jul 21st 2017 at 03:06 PM.
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Old Jul 21st 2017, 02:26 PM   #2
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This is interesting

5 real-world events which 'prove' that time travel actually exists | Metro News

Not true, just interesting.

To see where the hoax is take a look at the video below

2) This man met a time-travelling version of himself – and filmed it

Notice the tattoo on the arm of the claimed "older version of himself." Do you see what's wrong with it? It appears as fresh as the one on his younger self. But tattoos fade with time and thus with age. Hoaxers like that irritate the hell out of me.

Last edited by Pmb; Jul 21st 2017 at 02:33 PM.
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Old Jul 21st 2017, 03:28 PM   #3
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See also

https://www.cia.gov/news-information...ng-saucer.html

https://www.cia.gov/news-information...r-x-files.html
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Old Jul 21st 2017, 03:45 PM   #4
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It happened when I was in the US Air Force. I was traveling with two other airmen from Lowry AFB to Davis Monthan AFB. While driving through the NM desert at night we saw what appeared to be two headlights coming towards us. They never got further apart nor did they get any closer. We tried speeding up and slowing down to either get closer to or further from them. Nothing worked. We even turned our lights off to make sure it wasn't a weird reflection of our lights. It lasted over an hour but I can't recall how it ended and that's what I just realized. 20 years later I've been suffering from a large variety of medical problems, two of which disabled me, one permanently. Each explainable, but no explanation as to why such almost statistically impossible bad luck.
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Old Jul 21st 2017, 03:58 PM   #5
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I thought this was interesting:

In the mathematical modeling it’s an assumption we put into the theory. It doesn’t really follow from first principles. But it’s an essential assumption, we wouldn’t be able to formulate classical field theory w/o it. And as no one has every observed it it’s also not problematic.
Classical field theory is an initial value problem. We “slice” up space-time into slices of space that evolve in a time coordinate. This process is a bit arbitrary, there is no spaghetti monster given global clock. It took mathematicians quite some time to proof that the end results don’t depend on the choice of time coordinate.
Then we take one slice of space at a fixed time and specify the values of all the fields on it. The fields equations uniquely determine the values of the fields at all other times [1].
It took mathematicians again a long time to proof that the possibility to split space-time into space time is equivalent to the non-existence of time-travel. So everything fits together perfectly. That’s what makes us believe that time travel is impossible.
copy pasted from here.

Not sure I completely understand it but sounds interesting.
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Old Jul 21st 2017, 04:14 PM   #6
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The problem with that is that general relativity allows time travel. That page is in error.

1) Kip Thorne was on a TV program in which he showed how to use wormholes to time travel. Its not hard to understand.

2) His comments ignore quantum theory. J. Richard Gott, an astrophysicist at Princeton University showed that one can time travel using two straight cosmic strings in relative motion. He's known for developing the theory of time travel. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Richard_Gott

What I just described is called the Gott time machine. Its being taught to graduate students in the course on GR at MIT.

Gott argues that if one invokes the multiverse theory of quantum gravity it eliminates the grandfather paradox.

Notice that what you posted inherently does not include the multiverse.
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Old Jul 21st 2017, 07:19 PM   #7
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See the article in Physics Today on the subject

http://physicstoday.scitation.org/do...pto&ver=pdfcov
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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 01:30 AM   #8
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What are UFO's ?

This is a very big subject .... for over 70 Years the secret government has been back engineering downed alien craft ( see Bob Lazar ) ... we now have huge fleets of exotic craft with bases on the moon and mars ...perhaps half of UFO's seen are piloted by humans ... the rest by aliens who come here mainly to abduct people for hybrid breeding programs ..

This is ,of course kept secret from the public , and a large movement has now developed pushing for disclosure ...

Some estimate there are many thousand different ET groups taking an interest in humanity , using all types of craft , solid , interdimensional , plasma ....

Time travel is also real , the shadow government has been using this for decades ( see Al Bielek )
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Old Jul 22nd 2017, 05:51 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by oz93666 View Post
This is a very big subject .... for over 70 Years the secret government has been back engineering downed alien craft ( see Bob Lazar ) ....
Oz - Please don't do this. Its responses like this that have been the reason that I've avoided discussing the subject for 20 years. Please don't start with conspiracy theories. That is not science. All of you conspiracy people operate under the false assumption that we don't already know what you believe and we've never taken the time to research the notions you raise. That may be true for some of us but its not true for all of us. In any case its not science and doesn't belong in this particular thread as stated in the opening post which defines this thread. Please feel free to start your own thread on the subject.


By the way, Bob Lazar is a major liar. For example 've seen his website and his so-called video of a UFO - its fake and it can readily be shown to be one. His grasp of physics is nearly non-existent. He's never gone to MIT like he claimed too. He couldn't remember one teacher he had at MIT while I can recall almost all of mine from the college and university I went to.

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Old Jul 23rd 2017, 12:44 AM   #10
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Everybody who would chase a balloon thinking that its a UFO please raise your hand.

Those of you who raised your hand - Please never get a pilots license and try flying.

Project bluebook asserted that the case of Captain Thomas F. Mantell, on 7 January 1948, who while in pursuit of a UFO, was really chasing a Skyhook balloon.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyhook_balloon

It's described at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantell_UFO_incident

Hint: Pilots are no where's near that stupid.

Last edited by Pmb; Jul 23rd 2017 at 12:48 AM.
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