Physics Help Forum Electrical energy duplication

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 Mar 22nd 2009, 09:45 PM #1 Junior Member   Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6 Electrical energy duplication Hi a layman here. I seem to have somehow found a way to reproduce electrical energy multiple times from the same single source. ie 1kw input, can run 3kw of appliances at the same time. Is an isolating transformers stated limit an absolute limit? I know how it sounds but please ... no sarcasm Cheers
 Mar 23rd 2009, 03:07 AM #2 Physics Team   Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,425 The law of conservation of energy clearly states that energy cannot be created or destroyed (we are not talking of nuclear fission here), and this is one of the most tested and proven laws of physics. The isolation transformer ratings refer to the max value of power it can deliver and this can never be more than the power input to it. In fact it is always less, because efficiency is never = 1. If at all it appears that you are generating extra power there has to be a mistake in your assessment. It may be that the 3 loads of 1 KW each may not be consuming full power in this condition so the total is still less or there ratings may have been artificially raked up (marketing gimmicks), like in speakers they rate them in PMPO (peak music power output) which is much less than the actual power rating which should be RMS. If you can specify what exactly you have done we can help you find the flaw.
 Mar 23rd 2009, 11:09 AM #3 Junior Member   Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6 Thanks for reply. I have used the isolating transformer only as means of ensuring that the power used is limited to that transformers stated limit. I appreciate that I am not "creating", however, what appears to happening, using the simple tools available for measurement and testing is that: 1 x 1300w rated iron 1 x 850w rated grinder 1 x 700w rated grinder 1 x 1350w rated vacuum cleaner Are all operating to a working degree through a 1kva rated isolating transformer. I have shown the results to a trusted ex Air Force electrical engineer who is unable to explain why but does agree that the total energy being used far outstrips that which is being supplied. I do have concerns regarding the I.P. which is why I may sound a little cagey. Your thoughts ?
 Mar 23rd 2009, 12:02 PM #4 Physics Team   Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,425 Connect the equipment one at a time and see if the performance is the same as when all are together e.g. check if the iron is hotter when alone etc. It might happen that the ratings given are the maximum whreas if they are idling esp the grinders they consume less power. What do you mean by I.P ? Is it input? Is it some new/ different type of energy source you are expmnting with. There is some recorded evidence of some chap generating power by using an areial and earth and using it to run motors (with special windings) lamps, etc and even MIT engineers couldnt explain Early 1900 i think This was in a book by tuft i think cant recall the name. So such things are not impossible What you need to really do is measure the total current output assuming these are in parallel and then decide on the power consumption.
 Mar 23rd 2009, 12:19 PM #5 Junior Member   Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6 I have tested the workings. The iron sits in idle until a grinder load has been applied, at which point the iron "loads up", when the second grinder is load is applied the first grinder back off slightly, but the iron loads up further, when the second grinder is loaded to grinder the performance of the vacuum cleaner increases. Im not smart enough to have found a new source of energy. I appear more to have stumbled onto some kind of phenomenon that allows what is happening to happen. I have only been able to measure voltages which do drop within the system as more load is applied. My colleagues comment, "it cant be happening but I cant disagree that it is" has prompted me to solicit the help of you smart cookies. I.P. is intelectual property and the rights to it. Cheers
 Mar 23rd 2009, 07:40 PM #6 Physics Team   Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: India Posts: 365 Before any comment I would like to know- 1- whether you connected all the equipments in series or in parallel. 2- what was the input current and input voltage when all the equipments were attached ? 3- what was the output voltage and current when all the equipments were connected ? Thanks.
 Mar 23rd 2009, 07:56 PM #7 Junior Member   Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6 As mentioned previously, I am a little concerned about the Intellectual Property Rights to what I appear to have done so forgive me if I sound a little vague. Input voltage and current 230 volts, 4.2amps 1kw Output voltage and current from the Transformer 190 volts 5.1amps The items were placed, strictly speaking, in series. I do not wish to offend and do appreciate the interaction but there is a little "jiggery pokery" involved that I cannot divulge at this point in a public forum. Any comments or tests you can suggest would be most welcome Thankyou and regards
 Mar 23rd 2009, 08:05 PM #8 Physics Team   Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: India Posts: 365 Just one more question. What are the voltage ratings of the equipments. I mean (say) 110 V 0r 220 V ?
 Mar 23rd 2009, 08:09 PM #9 Junior Member   Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6 All the appliances are rated 230 to 240 volt
 Mar 27th 2009, 06:42 AM #10 Physics Team   Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,425 Your output power is 969 W while your input is only 966 W which violates conservation of energy. Assuming all devices operate with full power, you should be consuming 4200 watts not 966. Again the iron loads up only when the grinder is loaded. By this I assume you mean that you begin grinding something. It is known that motors generate a back emf when idling and this restricts the current flow thru them. When they are loaded , they draw more current and since they are in series maybe the iron heats up. The rest of the stuff about the vacuum cleaner is not very clear. If your “jiggery pokery” amounts to something like connecting the secondary back in series with the primary (in phase) so that the voltages add up and then take the output between one end of the primary and the other end of the secondary, then possibly some additional power is being fed directly thru the mains. Motors sometimes get their windings shorted if power is applied and they don’t move because the voltage is low. Consequently a higher current flows and they may move later but the power ratings are no longer valid. Also, does your isolation transformer (input voltage = output voltage I hope) heat up ? It should from power considerations. Another thing. With isolation transformers, the output voltage is floating and so there might be even a voltage of 110V with respect to earth. So if you are connecting the equipments to earth then it might be possible as the extra energy may come from the voltage with respect to the earth.

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