Go Back   Physics Help Forum > High School and Pre-University Physics Help > Electricity and Magnetism

Electricity and Magnetism Electricity and Magnetism Physics Help Forum

Like Tree2Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Apr 27th 2018, 11:45 PM   #41
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by QuestionablePhysics View Post
so here again we have restated the question in yet an even more meaningful way... How do we differentiate the parallel paths of virtual inductances for individual measurement?
I may be wrong about this but the only thing I can imagine that would differentiate the parallel circuits is the possibility of a signal difference created individually for each of the branches. a signal that is measurable someplace in the globes non-virtual circuit.

so another related more meaningful question comes to mind. What type of emanating signal(s) might be found in the globes circuit which might identify a particular branch circuit is more or less active than other branches?

any suggestions welcome thanks in advance.
QP
QuestionablePhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st 2018, 08:30 AM   #42
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by studiot View Post
Well my wattmeter also reads out power factor, as they have done for a very long time, since charges relating to PF were introduced in the electricity supply industry in fact.
yes you are correct PF is something I hadn't considered. I am not an expert with AC circuits I never claimed to be. The way I had originally been taught this topic matter it did not highlight :
In Ac circuits no power is consumed because of capacitance or inductance it is merely stored and released at one point or another. This is in one of my books in a section called PF(power factor) but was covered differently in a different course so this section was omitted from class. And it goes on to mention Power being delivered. I stand corrected, please acknowledge from what I read in my posts from you it seemed you were trying to insult my intelligence, rather than answer the question.

If I did the same to you I apologize as well.

It seems different course selections change vantage points on how electricity works to some point, where one almost eliminates another completely. My foundation was in computer electronics (digital), though I've had many experiences in all different areas of the electronics industry. This entire Plasma globe project is all about catching up on the areas of my education where there were seemingly just overviewed topics rather than in depth study.

Although please note a one or 2 line answer that may be correct in your statement and use, does not suggest it actually answers the question being asked. PF does play an important role in AC circuits, though a one or 2 line statement about having a meter explains very little, and it is but one page in a very large chapter on AC electronics.

Sincerely,
QP
QuestionablePhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 1st 2018, 09:45 AM   #43
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 993
If I did the same to you I apologize as well.
Fair enough, I will try again.


Firstly the powermeter was meant to be connected between the globe and its power supply.
This enables monitoring of the total energy passing to earth and also to observe spikes of activity.
Alternatively a low value non inductive resistor could be connected between the globe and its power supply and the voltage across it monitored on a scope or RF millivoltmeter.
(That is actually how many power meters work)
One type of true RMS meter uses the heating effect via a thermistor or other heat sensitive resistor and these have been made to operate at up to several GHz. I have an old NATO military valve one.

OK so having set that up you want to investigate discharge paths.

First establish a complete earth sourround spherical or hemispherical and let rip, monitoring the power meter.

That will calibrate the setup.

Then I suggest investigating paths using an old fashioned gold leaf electroscope.
This barely loads the field so should not interfere with it and is a non contact measurement device.

Does this help?

With acknowledgement to Oz and Woody, this is what I was outlining before.
studiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd 2018, 02:59 AM   #44
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 29
[QUOTE=studiot;40422]Fair enough, I will try again.
Does this help?
QUOTE]

some answer may be better than no answer at times.

most of the equipment and methods you've mentioned I am familiar with either hands on at least have seen demonstrated in book, class, or video.

the first thing necessary though in any electronics testing is to know exactly what your trying to find out, and determine what to measure and how to measure it to resolve what your trying to find out.

The suggestion of creating a structure( I am assuming a hypothetical one on paper ) is by far the first step in the process to identify what your trying to do, once the hypothetical model shows what you should be reading and where then proceed to measure it to verify your calculations are accurate.

You are continuing to jump into measuring random some what nearly related points which identify some what interesting results though however I as I have stated ( am not looking for just interesting aspects ) am looking for key specific things I am trying to identify.

the antenna structure I described in the previous several posts seems the best route at this point. Do you have any input in this area?

Sincerely,
QP
QuestionablePhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd 2018, 03:34 AM   #45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 993
An antenna will not work.

The 'structure' is a very practical Farady screen.
It sould be constructed initially of foil or metal sheet.
I am not sure if a mesh would work, though you could easily test this by constructing both and measuring the differnce, if any.

The point of the structure is Gauss's Law which relates the totality of the flux exiting the globe.

Once you have measured this you can investigate the local variation.
studiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd 2018, 03:40 AM   #46
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by studiot View Post
An antenna will not work.
what makes you think so?
QuestionablePhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd 2018, 03:52 AM   #47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 993
Originally Posted by QuestionablePhysics View Post
what makes you think so?
An antenna is a tuned device.

The discharges contain a random distribution of broadband signals.

So yes you would pick something up.

But you would also miss alot.


In effect the simple probe I previously suggested is a form of detuned antenna that is a very blunt instument (pun intended).

Perhaps you don't know but there is quite a respectable body of theory about the shape of such probes.
studiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd 2018, 04:16 AM   #48
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by studiot View Post
An antenna will not work.
did you read my posts on the antenna structure at all or did you just read the part where I asked for input upon the antenna structure and assumed I said something about using an antenna for a pick up? because I never said any thing about picking up anything with an antenna!

I asked for input upon my antenna structure idea, meaning I was asking about a specific idea, and also I would imagine perhaps specific formulas for that type of antenna arrangement.

QP
QuestionablePhysics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd 2018, 09:22 AM   #49
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Somerset, England
Posts: 993
I am sorry your attitude towards others trying to help you has not improved so I am going to leave this thread.

Here is one last thought.

The incidence of discharge at any given point is random and therefore probabilistic
In your investigation you might like to consider a similar, but simpler problem originally posed by Buffon.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffon%27s_needle

Last edited by studiot; May 2nd 2018 at 02:02 PM.
studiot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  Physics Help Forum > High School and Pre-University Physics Help > Electricity and Magnetism

Tags
globe, plasma, question



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Physics Forum Discussions
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
PLASMA BALL and Concave Mirror Trick QuestionablePhysics Electricity and Magnetism 0 Mar 26th 2018 03:18 AM
Plasma Spectroscopy jagadeeshr Physics 0 May 4th 2017 07:30 AM
What is the approximate impedance of an RF plasma "antenna"? adamjohnson Physics 0 Oct 21st 2016 12:21 AM
Plasma and Gravity neil Energy and Work 6 Nov 27th 2013 02:50 PM
plasma gun arezo Nuclear and Particle Physics 3 Mar 24th 2011 02:50 PM


Facebook Twitter Google+ RSS Feed