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Old Apr 16th 2018, 05:56 AM   #21
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Well let's see.

Your first response to the correct answer to your very loosely put question was to tell me that I had not answered it and that

well I was expecting something more scientific
I should like to inform you that electronics companies, universities and research establishmets spend millions on developing scientific instruments called probes.
Some of these probes are very very expensive to buy such as a gigahetz probe for an HP (now Agilent) measuring instrument.
I have several treatises on the theory of probes in my library.

Perhaps all these are not scientific?

Moving on I laid out the groundwork to descibe a much more detailed measurement scheme for what I guess may be your actual question. However I also indicated that I wasn't sure what you are asking. I was also hoping to quietly repair your evident lack of understanding of electrical terms and quantities in the process.

Your response was rude and dismissive as before.
Instead of some response along the lines of "What does that mean, can you give more detail?"


I will offer one more try at helping you, because you do not know it all.



about where you said "Further the electrical definition of load means the electrical power delivered to it from the source"

instead I should have said,
"the electrical definition of load means the electrical power ratio pulled and consumed from the source not delivered to it!"
I said and I meant, 'delivered to'.

This is a neutral term which does not presuppose the controlling or forcing device.

It is possible for some sources to force power on some loads, but not others.

Equally it is possible for some loads to extract power from some sources, but not others.

Either way the source delivers power to the load. Period.

Last edited by studiot; Apr 16th 2018 at 06:02 AM.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 06:46 AM   #22
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studiot,
hmm.. it seems all you want to do is argue and not attempt to answer the actual question.

hmm probes.. a connecting lead to the instrument doing the testing.. such as a digital multi-meter, an oscilloscope, a power supply, a frequency counter, an LC meter(hmm 2 of the terms you said are meaningless) capacitance(C) inductance(L) Resistance(R) RLC circuits) Spectrum analyzer(which I happen to be HP Certified calibrating) and many more electrical terms and equipment that I am familiar with.

but that aside, you have made no attempt to actually answer the question, only tried to pick a fight. please leave respectable sights like this forum for people with actual research needs and desires. and if you had laid out ground work to answer the question then why didn't you just post the in question ground work to prove your efforts are benevolent, instead of submitting a near identical post to the previous posters response about using a probe (which alone a probe to a test equipment is useless) and then later saying Impedance circuits were meaningless!

Ill give you one more attempt to prove benevolence and let you post your in question (answer you say you have) of course you say your not even certain what the question is even thou I stated it very clearly and will repeat it one last time for you.

What are and how many ways are there to identify the load in question ( the bulb ) within the EM field emitted by the plasma globe by measurement?

If I see any post other than an answer ill have to assume ( without reasonable doubt ) that you are a malevolent SPAMMER!
Sincerely,
QP
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 07:36 AM   #23
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questionablephysics.

studiot,
hmm.. it seems all you want to do is argue and not attempt to answer the actual question.
This is the third time you have posted what I can only think are lying misrepresentations of my actual words.

I answered your first question

questionablephysics post#1
My question is since the path is non-random is there some type of sensor which can correspond with the path direction?
studiot post#3
Yes the device outside the globe (finger, flourescent tube, probe tip connected to earth gorund etc)
To which you said

questionablephysics post#4
thank you for your response, though the question remains.
Clearly failing to acknowledge my list of sensors that can indicate direction as requested.

So I very politely and pleasantly confirmed my statement and offered further help.

studiot post#5
The question was indeed answered.

It is specifically why I introduced the grounded probe, since you asked about an instrument.
to which you replied a very grudging acknowledgement and introduced the word impedence for the first time, and seemed to have forgotton your own original question asking instead several new ones.

questionablephysics post#6
well I was expecting something more scientific
such as using an oscilloscope to measure the impedance etc.
and of course detailed steps to get an accurate reading.
and of course anything case specific to the exact question.

duh
I offered an answer to your new questions

studiot post#15
In these circumstances I would use a calibrated load and a milli/microwattmeter.
You denied it and instead stated incorrectly that I had also said the exact opposite of what I actually wrote.

When this was pointed out you very grudgingly acknowledge your mistake, but tried to wriggle out by some excuse about copy and pasting.

questionablephysics post#20
no you didn't say the load delivers and I was quick to write a response.

about where you said "Further the electrical definition of load means the electrical power delivered to it from the source"

instead I should have said,
"the electrical definition of load means the electrical power ratio pulled and consumed from the source not delivered to it!"

was this miss-read? or did I copy paste it incorrectly?

So there we have it.

I have told you the basic method I would use to measure any of the parameters you have asked for, but in outline only without the detail yet being filled in.
Actually it is not only my method, I think (but I am not sure) it is the only method.

Your response was as rude as before, denying that any effort at all has been put into answering your questions and claiming that you are an HP certified technician of some sort.

I wonder what HP would say if asked how they felt about one of their certified technicians for a spectrum analyser (of all instruments) states several times the false equation Z = RLC?

So your latest revision of your question has already been answered in outline in post #15

questionablephysics post#22
What are and how many ways are there to identify the load in question ( the bulb ) within the EM field emitted by the plasma globe by measurement?
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 08:32 AM   #24
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just to clear things up I never said Z = RLC was a formula nor equation.
by posting Z = RLC I merely stated impedance(Z) is given as a factor of RLC.

The True formula for Z(impedance) = V/I or OHMS law oh but wait that
is the effective resistance which would have to take into account RLC .

so you'd have to calculate the Inductance(Xl) 2piFL and capacitive reactance(Xc) 1/(2piFC) and then use kirchoff's laws for series and parallel circuits thru all Resistances(R)
to determine voltages and currents... RLC?

but instead of drawing out elaborate tutorials I give the physicists the benefit of the doubt that they passed basic electronics physics years ago and just substituted impedance(Z) is given as a factor of RLC which is true and valid!

so here studiot says :"I wonder what HP would say if asked how they felt about one of their certified technicians for a spectrum analyser (of all instruments) states several times the false equation Z = RLC?" showing studiot's true malevolent SPAM tactic!

then studiot says
"So your latest revision of your question has already been answered in outline in post #15"
referring to my question
"What are and how many ways are there to identify the load in question ( the bulb ) within the EM field emitted by the plasma globe by measurement?"

and studiots post 15 says
"In these circumstances I would use a calibrated load and a milli/microwattmeter. "
so he said this was an outline answer to (what are and how many)????

I guess he is saying there is only one way??? and he is saying all you can measure is either milli-watts or micro-watts from the device? did he outline in any way what is identified? did he specify anything about the Induction or capacitance of the load? I guess there must not be any???

Thank you so much! SPAM Is so delicious!
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 10:07 AM   #25
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Well my wattmeter also reads out power factor, as they have done for a very long time, since charges relating to PF were introduced in the electricity supply industry in fact.

Do you still wish to mock?

or

Do you now wish to discuss Physics?
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 11:45 AM   #26
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Being the kind of person that I am I will explain to you why these answers you gave at first are incorrect

studiot says:
I answered your first question

questionablephysics post#1
My question is since the path is non-random is there some type of sensor which can correspond with the path direction?

studiot post#3
Yes the device outside the globe (finger, flourescent tube, probe tip connected to earth gorund etc)

To which you said

questionablephysics post#4
thank you for your response, though the question remains.

and studio finally states:
Clearly failing to acknowledge my list of sensors that can indicate direction as requested

QP says:
No I did not fail to acknowledge your list, the trouble here as you either do not grasp or are withholding is that they are invalid for the question.. and I will explain why.

My question was posted within the context of:

"the plasma globe has a random pattern of energy emitted but when a fluorescent bulb or even a figure comes into contact proximity of the globe a easier path of conductivity is formed and the path becomes non-random."

since it was in that context:
The sensor I was requesting was to indicate the existing path to the object.

AND putting another finger or bulb in the proximity like you suggest does not act as such a sensor. a grounded probe you suggest might do it, but only if it were connected to the correct sensing (sensor) circuit!

Since we know it is visually identifiable a video camera or maybe carefully placed photo-transistors could affectively measure the path to the item brought into contact.

because the question seemed unclear to some individuals and because a visual
sensor would not suffice either I changed it to "measure and identify the Load" because my particular interest is path intensity and strength. a visual capture could get the direction and visual intensity but it cannot get the strength.

studiot may have been looking at my question out of context either un-intentionally or intentionally, if it were the prior case sorry for the miss-understanding studiot. If not shame upon you.

I guess an even more evident way to ask the question now is : "If an object were brought into proximity of a plasma globe such that it modified the EM radiation conductivity path and aimed it towards that object what type of sensing circuit would be necessary to identify this directed conductivity direction, intensity and strength from the globe to the object?

Sincerely,
QP
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:05 PM   #27
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I guess an even more evident way to ask the question now is : "If an object were brought into proximity of a plasma globe such that it modified the EM radiation conductivity path and aimed it towards that object what type of sensing circuit would be necessary to identify this directed conductivity direction, intensity and strength from the globe to the object?
Why would this direction not be a straight line?

Also strength of what?

Intensity of what?

Last edited by studiot; Apr 16th 2018 at 12:07 PM.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:09 PM   #28
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common, the plasma globe have effective longitude latitude coordinates? basically 360 degrees in both directions.. the direction would be a straight line yes but at what coordinates on the system?

QP
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:11 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by studiot View Post
Why would this direction not be a straight line?

Also strength of what?

Intensity of what?
I guess an even more evident way to ask the question now is : "If an object were brought into proximity of a plasma globe such that it modified the EM radiation conductivity path and aimed it towards that object what type of sensing circuit would be necessary to identify this directed conductivity direction, intensity and strength from the globe to the object?

direction I answered, strength and intensity of the directed conductivity
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:18 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by QuestionablePhysics View Post
I guess an even more evident way to ask the question now is : "If an object were brought into proximity of a plasma globe such that it modified the EM radiation conductivity path and aimed it towards that object what type of sensing circuit would be necessary to identify this directed conductivity direction, intensity and strength from the globe to the object?

direction I answered, strength and intensity of the directed conductivity
Well I'm sorry but I see no answer to the direction part so please humour me as an idiot and spell it out.

Please define strength and intensity of a conductivity direction, neither are standard Physics (or electronics) terms in this subject.

Are you referring to the strength of the electric field, for instance?

That is do you mean the electric field vector, E or the electric displacement vector, D
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