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Old Apr 15th 2018, 01:47 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by QuestionablePhysics View Post
so the question to become very clear: what steps are necessary to measure and identify the load?
well clearly the load is what you bring to the situation , why would you want to measure that ??? It will be different for a finger or an earthed wire
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Old Apr 15th 2018, 02:54 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by oz93666 View Post
well clearly the load is what you bring to the situation , why would you want to measure that ??? It will be different for a finger or an earthed wire
the question is not why but how? and yes it will be different for anything it comes into contact with... hence the why: to identify it! just like in the post you quoted!

"so the question to become very clear: what steps are necessary to measure and identify the load?"
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Old Apr 15th 2018, 11:25 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by QuestionablePhysics View Post
the question is not why but how? and yes it will be different for anything it comes into contact with... hence the why: to identify it! just like in the post you quoted!
"so the question to become very clear: what steps are necessary to measure and identify the load?"
Well , to identify the load you need to know the voltage , frequency and current .

Fix one oscilloscope probe to the globe , the other probe is Earthed . This will be the load you can measure , from one probe to the other , going through the scope .... changing the dials on the scope will change the load ...

the scope can measure frequency , and current , and voltage , but you have to change the dial and thus the load to measure these three parameters
so you really need 2 devices ....

First measure the frequency ... we can assume this will not change .

Then connect two scopes , or meters , one to measure the current and the other to measure the voltage , both connected to the probes , you will be able to find the load of these two meters .

Last edited by oz93666; Apr 15th 2018 at 11:34 PM.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:02 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by oz93666 View Post
Well , to identify the load you need to know the voltage , frequency and current .

Fix one oscilloscope probe to the globe , the other probe is Earthed . This will be the load you can measure , from one probe to the other , going through the scope .... changing the dials on the scope will change the load ...

the scope can measure frequency , and current , and voltage , but you have to change the dial and thus the load to measure these three parameters
so you really need 2 devices ....

First measure the frequency ... we can assume this will not change .

Then connect two scopes , or meters , one to measure the current and the other to measure the voltage , both connected to the probes , you will be able to find the load of these two meters .
strange you didn't mention lead or lag for RLC = Z, but this is besides the point as you clearly cannot answer the question!
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 12:44 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by QuestionablePhysics View Post
strange you didn't mention lead or lag for RLC = Z, but this is besides the point as you clearly cannot answer the question!
If you would like to confirm the following or provide a different specification it may be possible to answer your question; otherwise I think you are asking the wrong thing.

We are all agreed that the load imposed by a flying probe will vary with configuration.
Further the electrical definition of load means the electrical power delivered to it from the source, unless further information is given such as 'find the voltage dropped across the load' or whatever.

In these circumstances I would use a calibrated load and a milli/microwattmeter.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 01:52 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by studiot View Post
If you would like to confirm the following or provide a different specification it may be possible to answer your question; otherwise I think you are asking the wrong thing.

We are all agreed that the load imposed by a flying probe will vary with configuration.
Further the electrical definition of load means the electrical power delivered to it from the source, unless further information is given such as 'find the voltage dropped across the load' or whatever.

In these circumstances I would use a calibrated load and a milli/microwattmeter.
The Question is not about a flying probe, so it doesn't matter if its agreed upon!
visual confirmation of a load is given by observation of the reactions in the plasma globe and by the bulb lighting!
And as far as what I am asking this is very clear and obvious, so please answer the question directly and quit trying to mislead the question!

in what and how many ways can this Load be identified thru measurements?

Sincerely,
QP
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 01:59 AM   #17
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and also your definition meaning is absolutely incorrect.. load means it consumes not delivers!

Originally Posted by studio:
Further the electrical definition of load means the electrical power delivered to it from the source
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 03:57 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by studio:
Further the electrical definition of load means the electrical power delivered to it from the source

to help think of this:
People mistakenly think of this as a pizza cannot be consumed if it isn't delivered!
but loads aren't about delivery, imagine instead a room full of pizzas already delivered and there are 3 people in the room. 1 person consumes 3/4 the pizza a second person consumes 5/8 of the remaining 1/4 and the third person consumers the remaining 3/8 of that 1/4. each person can be thought of as a proportionate load. this is true with one small deviation, you have to think about cost! imagine the 3 people being 3 children and their respective loads are the drain they put upon their fathers wallet for purchasing the pizzas. now in electricity we don't do dollars and cents instead we deal in power and phase. the plasma globe is the fathers wallet spending money in a random pattern as need as bills arrive then the children come near the father with their needs. the fathers money is delivered regularly thru auto deposit from his job. think of this as a fixed electrical source. now we notice the consumption that one of the kids consumes 3/4 you might say he over eats which causes the father to have to work nights and weekends, but lets say he gets laid off... now he cannot buy as much pizza so the electrical source is less, but this doesn't change the load the kid still consumes 3/4 of what is available.. the source doesn't change the loads proportion. the loads consumption ratio stays the same.
so see its not about what is delivered, unless you think about type being an RLC circuit in comparison might be that the kid who will eat 3/4 of the pizza wont touch broccoli. pizza being a high frequency voltage and broccoli being a low frequency voltage. capacitive circuits will conduct high frequencies making them a better short circuit to AC (alternating current) which puts a bigger load on that type of source, but still it doesn't matter how much of that type is delivered it will still consume the same proportion of what is delivered.

fixed Loads are not subject to change but my question is about the position of the fixed load. and that bringing the bulb closer appears to close the circuit at 3 inches away the bulb doesn't light at one inch away the bulb lights partially and direct contact the bulb lights completely. the first thing we must consider is that the bulb source contacts are not being touched so the EM waves must be oscillating at a frequency that is neither too high nor too low for the RLC circuit to receive.. meaning the circuit is like an acceptable proportion of pizza and broccoli that the load will accept. too much or too little of either will result in no reception. but in our case we found a happy medium that causes the bulb to light. so why does it light at 1 inch away and not at 3 inches away. well the farther you get away from the source the more dispersed it is meaning less power even thou the load impedance doesn't change unless you consider the capacitive distance of space between the globe and the bulb as part of your load Z calculation.

More Later,
QP
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 04:23 AM   #19
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so please answer the question directly and quit trying to mislead the question!
Why should anyone bother since you are so determined to misread, misinterpret and then misrepresent what others write?

and also your definition meaning is absolutely incorrect.. load means it consumes not delivers!
Read what I actually wrote, or post quoting where I said the load delivers and not consumes.
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Old Apr 16th 2018, 05:12 AM   #20
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no you didn't say the load delivers and I was quick to write a response.

about where you said "Further the electrical definition of load means the electrical power delivered to it from the source"

instead I should have said,
"the electrical definition of load means the electrical power ratio pulled and consumed from the source not delivered to it!"

was this miss-read? or did I copy paste it incorrectly?

so if your going to say I misrepresented then read your own post again and compare it to the facts please! I haven't represented anything you've said.

I have no intention of representing anything you have to say, only here to get a serious answer to a serious research question! People should bother because, its the right thing to do! researchers assist others with their research

If you had bothered to answer seriously in the first place, I would not have respectfully replied the way I had!!!"
QP
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