Physics Help Forum New optic instrument iterspeedmeter

Nov 4th 2012, 08:19 AM   #1
Banned

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 64
New optic instrument iterspeedmeter

I wait for support in pdf I show experiment build and new very simply tool

a) desk
b) laser
c) 20-ty small mirrors

Micelson - Morley eperiment is very important point //// if You not accept yellow table in first link not read more

You need read about M-M experiment in any book or use my wiki link yellow table end

1 think that Earth = Rocket

(please click file and save pdf - if any problem with open pdf I can sent by e- mail )

Part 1 start

Part 2 applications and brightness

We have two independent methods:

1 Geometry of picture
a) by Marosz's Iterspeedmeter
b) by photocamera

2 brightness of picture
a) by light power sensor
b) by photocamera

I wait for cooperation offer ( please show my file Your friends )
I wait for support ( I'm able join to any reaserch project )

BR
Attached Files
 Marosz's velocity jig.pdf (270.2 KB, 2 views)

Last edited by tesla2; Nov 4th 2012 at 08:26 AM.

 Nov 5th 2012, 11:07 AM #2 Physics Team     Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Naperville, IL USA Posts: 2,271 As in all your previous posts on this topic you are continuing to confuse velocity and acceleration. The figure that shows how a laser beam may be deflected is incorrect, as it is well known that this effect only occurs under acceleration of the rocket. Under constant velocity the laser dot will remain in the center and not be deflected. So you need to change the v's to a's, and then you would have a technique for measuring acceleration. Attached Thumbnails
 Nov 5th 2012, 11:49 AM #3 Banned   Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 64 Dear Sir this what You write above mean that Michelson Morley measure not C but C+Vearth or C-Vearth IT IS NOT TRUE They make many experiments they measure only C velocity If You will use water not light You have right but water is not the same what light below wiki word please read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michels...ley_experiment I also measured not the same brightness West - East click file and save pdf to Your hd ( better quality ) https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bwm...W10UEdac2xrWDQ keep in memory all our speak I will need to confirm day of made
Nov 5th 2012, 01:03 PM   #4
Physics Team

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Naperville, IL USA
Posts: 2,271
 Originally Posted by tesla2 this what You write above mean that Michelson Morley measure not C but C+Vearth or C-Vearth IT IS NOT TRUE They make many experiments they measure only C velocity
Right - Michaelson-Morley proved that c is constant regardless of the motion of the source relative to anything else. There is no "aether" that you can measure an absolute velocity of light against. Einstein later augmented this to state that the speed of light is constant for all observers regardless of the relative motion of the source and observer, which is why the "dot" of your laser light would not move regardless of how fast the rocket is going or in what direction relative to anything else. You are trying to claim Einstein is wrong about this. I suggest that it's going to take a lot more than a drawing to prove that you are right and Einstein is wrong.

I have read it - and it is in full agreement with what I wrote. But you should also read up on Einstein's postulate about the speed of light being independent of motion of he observer - such as this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

 Originally Posted by tesla2 I also measured not the same brightness West - East
As noted previously in other posts, your experiment is flawed.

Nov 5th 2012, 08:35 PM   #5
Banned

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 64
right now I prepare experiment

two mirrors and one laser

near my home I have huge space

500 meter distance

I will set two mirrors like pdf show

500 m x 2 = 1 km

c= 300 000 km/s

T = 1/300 000 [s] it is time that light need from laser - mirror - mirror

Earth around Sun V= 30 km/s ( near 24:00 Polish local time )

30 km/s = 30 000 000 mm/s

V/T = S

30 000 000 / 300 000 = 100 mm

S=100 mm

what You think it will be proof for You that I discover ????
Attached Files
 ziemia laser.pdf (100.2 KB, 1 views)

Nov 6th 2012, 05:56 AM   #6
Physics Team

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Naperville, IL USA
Posts: 2,271
 Originally Posted by tesla2 V/T = S
I think you mean VT = S

 Originally Posted by tesla2 30 000 000 / 300 000 = 100 mm S=100 mm what You think it will be proof for You that I discover ????
If you set this up correctly you should get results consistent with Michaelson-Morley. The laser light will bounce off the far mirror and come back to a point near the source. That dot of light that you see at the south end shouldn't waiver - so 12 hours later it should still be at the same location even thought the earth has rotated; it will not shift back and forth by 100 mm. The devil is in the details however; you may find it very difficult to align the laser and mirror, and minor vibration of the mirror from wind gusts, passing cars, etc would make the laser "dot" jump wildly back at the south end. I think you'll find it difficult to set up.

By the way, why did you pick the the sun as the object to measure the earth's velocity against? Why not the center of the galaxy? Or why not earth's motion relative to another galaxy like Andromeda? Is there something magic about the sun in determining earth's "true" velocity?

OK, so I've told you what I think the experiment ought to show, now what do you think would be the results? If you suggest that the laser dot will shift due to the earth's motion relative to the sun you are predicting that M-M is incorrect, because the speed of light would have to be greater than c in order to cover a longer distance in the same time (the longer distance being the hypotenuse of the 1000 meter x 100mm triangle), and you are predicting that Einstein is incorrect, as his postulate is that the speed of light C is the same for all observers regardless of their individual velocities relative to each other.

Last edited by ChipB; Nov 6th 2012 at 08:53 AM.

 Nov 6th 2012, 09:41 AM #7 Banned   Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 64 Yes S=V*T right !!!! ( sorry ) Thank You for post. Thank You for support. today I already prepare all ( I have not so perfect laser but can bee ) in polish You Tube I explain condition You can view ( down of the text link ) I eliminate mirrors I will use only one laser + stative ( laser has got good AA batteries , so I will not Turn ON and not Tuch nothing to end of batteries ) I use any building as a screen ( door ) I think that 100 m should give 1 cm I wait for dark to start ( I will see how look signal on door ) then I will decide 100 m - 200 m i think if not I will wait for better laser ( I hope it will not rain in Poland) PLAN : a) Step one Turn On laser b) Step two mark point "black paint " c) Step three look on garage door ( 2h ,2h , 2h ) mark position of laser beam I will try glue by tape line jig to door I not use Compass I not use Time ( no need on this level ) I need only see move 2h , 2h , 2h and mark new point by "black paint " You can see polish You tube (condition of measure) Last edited by tesla2; Nov 6th 2012 at 09:44 AM.
 Nov 6th 2012, 10:19 AM #8 Physics Team     Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Naperville, IL USA Posts: 2,271 Sounds like a good experiment. You should plan on running it for several days, so that you can see if any movement of the laser spot is synchronized with the time of day.
 Nov 7th 2012, 02:45 AM #9 Banned   Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 64 Nice word thank You Yesterday I have problem ( laser work very good - 350 m no problem on garage 25 - 30 cm green point ) problem was batteries ( low temperature 1 h only ) I need prepare 12v form my car it will be perfect 24h test I also must think how show You and many peole Screen ( garage door ) and proof that light move - (air is not cleare green point look like ball and inside many bugs ) Please keep in memory this forum below I show You what I want to proof on - very small distaance ( 350m I schould see 3 cm ) below picture explain ( Sun - Earth distance is 150 000 000 km light need time "T" for go to Earth ) 220 km/s Sun and Earth for me mean that direction that I mark by red arrow will not tuch Earth ( for me it is impposible that Sun gravitation can change light signal direction that was sent in past and is on his own way to Earth ) M-M proof above ( but this is my interpretation light not has C+ Sun velocity ) https://docs.google.com/open?id=0Bwm...3pQNDY3elR6cG8 Thank You again ( yesterday I saw fee problem right now I will prepare better jig ) Br Marosz Polish Tesla 2 Attached Thumbnails
 Nov 7th 2012, 01:41 PM #10 Physics Team     Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Naperville, IL USA Posts: 2,271 Unfortuantely the divergence of the laser beam is going to make the meaurements difficult. Lasers typically has a divergence of around 1 milliradian, so over 350 meters the spot grows to be about 35 cm across (as you noted) with poorly defined edges. Trying to detect a 3.5 cm shift may be difficult. I suggest that you take a lot of data points, and use statistical analysis to eliminate the measurement variability that you will have. Last edited by ChipB; Nov 7th 2012 at 01:43 PM.

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Similar Physics Forum Discussions Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post stevenjones314 Advanced Waves and Sound 1 Jul 8th 2013 10:39 AM djanisf Light and Optics 0 Dec 15th 2010 08:42 AM arbolis General Physics 2 Aug 31st 2008 01:32 PM